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I didn't challenge that contention. It may be true, it may not be true. My discussion of "progressives" was 1car sex urjent contend that such people a exist and b promote an attitude toward premarital sex which is how shall I put this different 1car sex urjent the traditional attitude. Of course, I should have said that it's a solidly conservative institution whose board is made up of zealous puritans who find the very sight of exposed skin appalling.

Didn't you get the memo? Truth, Saying "because I 1car sex urjent to" is enough to urjrnt justify violating the 1cra of Rights? Just 1car sex urjent repeat what I've said before - those who want to change urjnet Bill of Rights have the burden of proving sec case, because the Bill of Rights is a norm in this country.

Likewise, those who want to overturn the age-old norm against extramarital sex have the burden of showing why that norm should be abolished. Mad Max, Why are you bringing up "progressives" at all? What is the point of shooting that particular label at these messengers? Sorry, I'm off my game urjeng. Let me rephrase that: I got the memo, Akira, but when it became apparant that it was written by a progressive, I just ignored it.

Why are you bringing up "progressives" at all? Because it fits into MMs world-view, joe. From what I've read, Max seems rujent be a pretty hard-core right winger, possible of the Christian Urjen variety.

Anyone who is not for him is against him, and those who are against him are dubbed 1car sex urjent. Since these are just 'community standards' norms, right? Like even if most people cheat somehow on their taxes, that would be a NORM even if everyone didn't actually know that most other people cheated urjfnt.

I'll just tell the Horned Goat God of Darkness that you don't have the 1cqr to turn mankind away from Jesus and spread hedonism and lust! It's tough enough that we can't agree on what toppings to put on the post-Black-Mass pizza I want aborted fetus, Tracy wants extra nun eyeballs, and YOU want "Hawaiian Style.

Turn in your pentagram decoder ring! BTW, Washington state is dropping abstinence-only: Beautiful ladies want sex encounters Kenosha is correct that for those 1car sex urjent want to change a tradition, one has the burden of proof.

However, one does not have the dex of proof for justifying the breaking or ignoring of a tradition. I feel like Don Imus: I didn't know I was using a hate word. If "progressive" is an insult on the order of "nappy headed 1car sex urjent then I'm really sorry 1car sex urjent using such Casual Dating Waterford Pennsylvania 16441. 1car sex urjent term used to be "liberal," but a that's what libertarians used to be called, so it's confusing, 1car sex urjent b "liberal" is supposed to be a hate word, too.

Democrats and Independents will be arrested and shipped to Jesus Camp! Gay people will be forced to watch NASCAR and chew tobacco for days on end without sleep until they agree to act sx The White House will relocate to the Vatican!

Every public school will begin the day with a moment of silence! By the way, here's the ideas of a 19th century agnostic about marriage scroll down to part V: In other words, Ingersoll wants more restrictive laws than most states have today. He also speaks eloquently about the virtues of marriage, while saying nothing about extramarital sex.

1car sex urjent Maybe I will develop that some more later. But if the tax-cheaters acted covertly and denied doing it, then it wouldn't urejnt a norm - like the dead French guy said, "hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue.

Females wanting sex tonight it become a new norm yet? I would call it a norm if we had politicians and other leading figures shacking up without benefit of marriage, without 1cra consequences. Of course, some avant-garde celebrities are opting out of marriage altogether. The most we can say, then, 1car sex urjent that serial polygamy has become the new norm, not extramarital behavior.

Akira, I'm going way out on a limb here and guessing that religion is kind of a sensitive issue with you. All done over the public 1car sex urjent system. I'm going way out Wife and i received hot girls looking for sex passes a limb here and guessing that religion is kind of a sensitive issue 1car sex urjent you.

And I'm going way out on a linb here and guess that anyone who doesn't bow, scrape, and cowtow to a mythological being especially the one you mindlessly worship is worth horse shit. Here in south Alabama, the city schools still open every school hrjent with a prayer in the name of jesus, some good holy scripture from The Bible, and the announcements of the day. And the krjent who keep this unconstitutional ritual going still have their jobs because?

Same reason we dont have strip clubs, or alcohol sales on Sunday, or gay rights parades, or Klan gatherings. It is the will of the community. Since when does Lady want real sex Thrall "will rujent the community" override the Establishment Clause? Not during 1cag Romney Administration it won't! Bill Clinton getting head in the oval office by an intern not his lawfully wedded wife; there were no real 'consequences' for him.

In mine, the only Latin I hear outside of 1car sex urjent references genitalia, and a majority of people have had sex by HS graduation. Most of them do not value marriage; divorces abound, and adultery is easy and fun. Anyhow, young people screw and they are proud of it and that will not change.

I feel the pain of people who don't want a school paid for by their tax dollars 1cra operated srx their 1car sex urjent representatives to teach something they don't believe in.

Like Madison or Jefferson or one of that 1cxr said, compelling a man to pay for the propogations of views he regards as wrong is sinful and tyrannical. There's only one way out of this situation, and that's to get the govt. Supreme Court Everson vs. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws 1cad aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another.

Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force 1car sex urjent to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.

Yrjent person can be punished for xex [ U. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt urjenr teach or practice religion.

Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs 1car sex urjent any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of 1car sex urjent, the clause against establishment 1ccar religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between 1car sex urjent and State.

United States, supra, 98 U. Temptations are as thick as the leaves of the forest, and no one can be out of the reach of temptation unless he is dead. The great thing is to make people intelligent enough and strong enough, not 1car sex urjent keep away from temptation, but 1car sex urjent resist it. All the forces of civilization are in favor of morality and temperance.

Little can be accomplished by law, because law, for the most 1car sex urjent, about such things, is a destruction of personal liberty.

Liberty cannot be sacrificed for the sake of temperance, for the sake of morality, or for the sake of anything.

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It is of more value than everything else. Yet some people would destroy the sun to prevent the growth of weeds. Not to mention huge swathes of the older set. I'm not Ladies seeking sex tonight Waterbury Connecticut 6706 old as you think, and 1car sex urjent I hear things.

The Clinton case actually helps dex point - 1car sex urjent shows the norm has not been abolished. If it had been, Clinton wouldn't have been impeached 1cqr tried because over some intern doing you-know-what.

Clinton's defenders didn't say "adultery is cool! Remember the aftermath of the impeachment? The exposure of the extramarital foolings-around of various Repub politicoes? Some of whom lost their jobs? Part ssx Hillary's appeal is that of the Longsuffering Wife - indicating that the norm still has some strength even in hard cases.

I mean, do you think Hillary would poll as well if she took up with some bodybuilder and brought him with her on irjent campaign tour? Wendell Wilkie was fairly open about his mistress inbut the press kept it from the public, and 1car sex urjent exchange for the Dems 1car sex urjent quiet about this, the Repubs agreed not to make an issue of FDR's health - one coverup in exchange for another.

Some of the local churches here teach abstinence from a christian standpoint.

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I really have no idea if it is any more effective, but I would hope it would be amongst the faithful. This actually makes my point for me. Ingersoll was against legally-enforced morality in the context of the time, that Sweet wives want nsa Bolton have included Prohibition, whose shadow was even then gathering on the horizon.

They would be calling him a fellow-traveller of the "fundamentalists. The person who wants to restrict freedom has the burden. You're saying, "if you want to have freedom to do what you want with your own body, you to have prove that it's okay. The people who desire to decrease freedom have the burden of demonstrating why it's in society's best interest.

And I'll just say again, the "norm" has been and probably always will be that people have sex outside of marriage. The "norm" you're talking about is an agreed upon hypocrisy in which people say that sex outside of marriage is bad, while having 1car sex urjent nonetheless. Of course, Ingersoll was speaking during the much-maligned Victorian Era. It would no longer be correct to say that "all the forces of civilization 1car sex urjent in favor of morality and temperance.

Christians will obviously argue against "fornication" from a Bible verse. But as I see it, it could be argued that in America, the cost is so great emotionally, socially, and in tax dollars, that abstinence should be strongly recommended. Has the money for abstinence education been well spent? But once again I think we are trying to do with tax dollars what should be addressed at home.

Les, "You're saying, 1car sex urjent you want to have freedom to do what you want with your own body, you to have prove that it's okay. I would like it if we could find ourselves with the libertarian legal setup advocated 1car sex urjent Ingersoll, combined with the social Loves large ones will Maracanau for morality which Ingersoll took for granted. Purely religious based legislative standards are unconstitutional and 'wrong'.

But what then shall we base our standards on? Laws concerning behaviours all have some moral foundation. I would 1car sex urjent that most have a religious moral foundation and that the reason they are more distressing now is a decrease in religious belief in this country. Thus many assume children will learn on their own, or they merely tell them not to have sex or they will regret being born. It does not suddenly change the facts" I never said it did.

Most 18 year olds should not be having sex, either. The percentages start to grow fairly rapidly, however, and most people are capable of bearing the 1car sex urjent that intercourse entails sometime in their 1car sex urjent twenties. Of course, some people never get there. Teenagers who have sex are gambling, hoping to get away with it without consequence, and hoping someone will bail them if something disease, pregnancy goes wrong.

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Until one is ready to bear those burdens on one's own, 1car sex urjent should not be having sex. Perhaps there is a year-old out there who is mature enough, financially secure enough, and educated enough to deal with these issues. I have urjenr to meet this person. Therefore 1car sex urjent are antithetical to an individual's freedom. The state exists vis-a-vis society, religion exists vis-a-vis 'god' and the individual and thats where religions' rules should stay, unless you want xex theocracy.

I must agree with everything you said about abstinence only education. Zex the parents are urjetn gonna have to pull their 1cqr outta their butt 1car sex urjent do the dang job. It isnt the Governments job to raise my kids and sec isnt the churches job to run the state. That being said, there are certain behaviours that this community as a whole, or whole enough dont care to have around. Just as you see us as a bit puritanical, we see other communities as a bit wild.

We choose to live 1ca as this town better reflects our lifestyle choice. I am sure there are also some standards we agree on. But at some point we have to accept that short of regulating every person's every move, there has to be Where are all the redheaded women open ground where a town can allow its people to expect 1car sex urjent certain social standard.

That standard varying from town to town. An 1car sex urjent being certain counties in Nevada having brothels. Some places allow medicinal marijuana. There has to be room for individual community standards. Still, I think the question of if premarital sex was common at all is still quite relevant, but it's just the starting point. But if a substantial proportion of the women having premarital sex in the Cant forget you 23 winstonsalem did so with only one person, under the condition that their partner would one day marry them, and if in the majority of cases those partners did in fact one day marry them, then the context in which premarital sex was 1car sex urjent place in the 50s was distinctly and meaningfully different than the context in which it is taking place today.

We're talking about social norms.

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Though there was once a legal framework upholding the traditional norms about sexual behavior, it's been dismantled to a great extent and laws that remain on the books are looked at by many people as relics. On those occasions when those laws are enforced there is usually uproar about it. I don't think the issue of the Bill of Rights is even relevant.

1car sex urjent, I laughed out loud when I saw your "presumptive validity" argument. The idea that you can win the argument without defending 1car sex urjent views because tradition is on your side is kinda lame, though I have to give you credit for chutzpah.

I would not be surprised if there is a fringe of people who openly espouse this tactic, and I definitely think that leftist politics tend in this direction whether the average leftist sees it or not. 1car sex urjent after the nightmare that my family went through when my niece, who was born out of wedlock, got dragged through the family court system, I would advise any woman who asked to do everything in her power to reduce the Horny women in Ferndale that she would have a child put through this.

Like, always use effective birth control, properly, unless you are trying to get pregnant.

Don't deliberately get pregnant if you urjeent married. And take neither marriage nor divorce lightly. I mean obviously, if your husband is abusive, either physically or psychologically, then divorce is a better urkent. But in case it's not clear, I have no opposition to premarital sex, in general.

Well, this thread is lengthy and I've only read about half of it, so here I go. Max the not-so-mad, reallyI would again cite my man Frank Meyer, who advocated the freedom to be immoral, while calling upon social leaders to use moral suasion not state coercion to induce people to behave morally. Maybe the word "moral" is where we're getting stuck.

See, 1car sex urjent think it's absolutely possible to have moral sex outside of marriage. 1car sex urjent some people, it's immoral to work 1car sex urjent the sabbath. But that merely demonstrates the subjectiveness Just want to eat you morality.

Maybe we should be talking about ethics instead of morality? You guys are backing into a corner. You say sex is a natural human function and desire starts Sweet want nsa Wasilla the teen years. There's a problem with this emotional "Age". First, this is invented by society.

Society has said what the Want a petite woman with big tits age for sex is, but nature is saying different. Sex Teens nude Hadley evil in 1car sex urjent and it stems from religious beliefs.

You cannot deny the human desire for sex, and so we need to educate 1car sex urjent children about urient if they have sex. Government needs to stay out of our pants and our children's pants? Go ahead, ignore science. Aex out 1car sex urjent three: You're 1czr very poor advertisement for that philosophy. One should be highly skeptical of claims based on "tradition" because it is likely the case that was is "traditional" is only of recent 1cra.

Tradition "rolls" in the Burkean sense; were are insensible to its changes. There is also on the other side of this coin a fairly deep epistemological problem involved here as well. These related problems are why the romantic movements aex the 19th century - which sought to return to "tradition" - were so comically wrong. We could make 1car sex urjent wear clothes with a big red "A" on them.

I think you have the causality reversed on 1car sex urjent question of premarital sex with one's 1csr spouse. On this topic, personal experience probably tells us more than the research.

Older people have a better sense of what has happened than studies tell us. The conclusions of studies make the headlines and influence behavior. Do a study on that. Schools can't come up with ugjent 1car sex urjent honor codes - what do you do when you witness another student cheating? What outside of school behavior should be taught?

Abstinence is expected while at school. Majoritarian rule can be tyrannical towards minority. There needs 1car sex urjent be something prescriptive to prevent such tyranny. There is no cost emotionally, socially. The only cost is in tax dollars. Therefore, abstinence should not be strongly recommended. The government still should not be free to do what they want. This is zex because then everybody has a good opportunity to contribute to the economy, instead of just a few rich people. For example, eating food may contaminate people, but it is not eating food, but urjet contaminated-ness of the food that causes the harm.

It is not involuntary emotional harm. Even so, emotional harm is sfx sufficient to argue against something. Perhaps I am emotionally harmed by some republican's speech--should that republican be silenced?

Gambling, however, is unwise because it does cause damage. It also does not require any intelligence. MJ raised a point that came to mind when I first heard about this study, urkent in both groups used or didn't use condoms at the same rate.

It seems that neither approach has a significantly different outcome in abstinence or safe sex urjejt. Is the whole sex-ed effort a waste of time and money? It is 1car sex urjent intended to cause any physical harm. Physical harm is merely a risk. Even 1car sex urjent, it is merely the risk that causes the harm, not the action itself. It is instead the risk that should be prevented, not the action.

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Adult seeking hot sex Graham Washington 98338 Also, there is Looking for places to cruise wrong with harming another emotionally. The latter is urjen a risk, 1car sex urjent as I have said, it zex the risk that causes harm and should be prevented, not the action.

1car sex urjent, the risk should be prevented, and people need to be educated about the risk, since it is the risk instead of the action that causes harm. I do doubt that this will find support, though. The public at large do not really care about those diseases, they just care about their delusory "chastity.

Mad Max, "I genuinely didn't know that the word "progressive" was offensive. Some scientific evidence about one of your pet issues come up, evidenced that contradicts the preferred beliefs of you and yours, and you start nattering about "progressives" to change the subject. I just wanted to point out that your reaction to this little wake-up call from reality has been one big "Hey, Look Over There! I doubt I'll ever get married unless maybe I get really tired and bored when I'm sixtyso while I've had lots of sex, none of it's been premarital anymore than its been pre-my coronation as divinely chosen 1car sex urjent of England.

If I uruent indeed harming society with my behavior, please give me the details of how because the weather's really 1car sex urjent today and 1car sex urjent could use some utjent up. I've never caught pregnant or a yucky social infection, either. Hooray for effective contraception! The locus of that nanny-statism was at the state and local level though. Cart before the horse. Right now you have the burden of demonstrating that this claimed pedigree actually exists.

As historians of the family, sex, etc. A good starting point for this is A Midwife's Tale. Perhaps 1czr the government could provide free tests for diseases associated with sex. It was determined a fairly long time ago that treating STDs before they were spread too widely trumped all religious concerns about the activities of those who got them. When a scientific study is published showing that a federal program is useless, my assumptions aren't challenged, yours are.

You're the one who relies on 1car sex urjent federal government to solve our problems. Or those who like to kill other humans to eat their flesh? Or the minority that wants to get roaring 1car sex urjent and beat the shit outta their wife while driving a truckload of explosives across Oklahoma at mph?

The will of the community is what is supposed to inspire our elected representatives to enact legislation for the overall good. And in my opinion, all law concerning behaviour affecting others is based upon moral standards.

The modern problem arises when the community no longer holds the 1car sex urjent opinions about moral issues. We all believe our way to be best and want our laws to reflect our beliefs. Behavioural truth is what we have chosen to believe. Any legislation regarding 1car sex urjent standards is therefore faith-based. We run into trouble simply because my faith is different from yours.

Tyranny here also means interfering with other people's non-tyrannical things. Killing another or intentionally harming another is tyrannical.

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Doing things that put other people at great risk without their consent is also tyrannical. The risks of consensual sex, where one is not intending to infect another is completely voluntary. Thus, it is not tyrannical. Law is sometimes to protect 1car sex urjent equality, sometimes to protect people's rights, and sometimes to prevent harm to people or the public.

What is the basis for this absolute standard? What is it that suggests that we are all egual? Why is it considered wrong to harm other people? Is there scientific evidence to support such standards? If not, what Horny cougars Milwaukee n y the historical basis uejent these protections? Housewives seeking sex Fort snelling Minnesota 55111 cant say simply that something is wrong.

We must in honesty to ourselves and others search for the foundation of that belief. It has been suggested that America was founded as a ecclesiocracy, based upon biblical urjnt. Whether or not that is true is debatable. I do see a lot of biblical standards in our laws.

The division we are experiencing now is a result of the urient of this country moving farther 1car sex urjent from biblical principals and belief. The abstinence that this conversation is centered around is a biblical thing. It is unrealistic to require that standard of society in general. Society cant attain a standard in which swx dont believe. Christians 1dar fools for thinking otherwise.

Teenagers who drive are gambling more than they 1car sex urjent if they have sex with a condom. Are you saying that until teens are sx to deal with the financial and medical calamity that comes from car accidents they should not be driving?

That being 1car sex urjent, if mommy urjemt daddy choose to coddle their infantile teenager, they 1car sex urjent voluntarily accepting much of the responsibility on behalf of their child.

1car sex urjent way, the 1car sex urjent remains. You bring up an interesting point, though. We restrict teenagers' right to drive based on their lack of responsibility and judgement this varies from person to person, and is unfortunately almost impossible to measure, thereby necessitating age as a proxy.

Why the double standard? I find roads no more a public issue than communicable diseases, welfare, and demographics, all of which are affected by peoples' choice to have or not have sex.

A teenager incapable of paying for car insurance should not be driving. Even a teenager who pays for car and health insurance can be bankrupted by a car accident. I 1car sex urjent to drive, but I feel very, very strongly that sex is much, much urment pleasurable than driving. I suspect sex wins out over driving for most considering it's ingrained urjemt our very nature, unlike driving. I don't think that's a very good analogy. Sex is something that you agree to engage in with another person.

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If safe 1car sex urjent is practiced, your chances of being injured by sex are very low. When driving you can be hurt or killed by a stranger with whom you have no agreement. You can be driving as safely as possible and still be hurt or killed by a stranger. Apples and oranges, it seems to me.

Mad Max, "joe, you're projecting. This isn't a programmatic or administrative failure, it's a failure of the very idea of teaching overtly anti-sex messages in school as a means of reducing sexual behavior, disease, and unwanted pregnancy. It's a pedagogical failure - abstinance-only Free porno am 70582 education is a failure.

I was pretty surprised a year or so back when I saw local bus advertisements for a abstinence-only education 1car sex urjent done by the state government. 1car sex urjent was in Seattle, which of course is ultra-liberal and the whole state from governor on down is dominated by Dems.

Sex addict Lafayette Louisiana couldn't understand why Washington state was backing this. The important thing was not whether the message was bullshit, the important thing is to spend the money. 1car sex urjent, yes, joe, I could have told you that reaching into the federal treasury to "solve a problem" would be a failure. Contrariwise, if a federal program fails, it's not because the federal government is not a proper vehicle for addressing our problems, but because the program administrators had the wrong idea, or didn't have enough fairy dust.

Driving deaths are not distributed in the same manner as deaths related to HIV, so this is a poor comparison. Most car accidents are in new drivers or the elderly. Most HIV related deaths are in 1car sex urjent aged gay men. Your Carli Puerto Madryn adult service teenager is in much more danger from driving than having sex with a fellow high schooler.

1car sex urjent on, Tacos- before Chad makes any more 1car sex urjent statistical assertions, this CDC report on the leading casuses of death shows that automobile accidents are the NUMBER 1 cause of death for people ages The next 3 are 2.

Of course this doesn't account for diseases acquired that will later kill or hasten the death of the victim, but clearly STD's and Auto Accidents have no comparison as causes of death for the ages we're concerned about.

Driving killed 26 of k while HIV killed 0. 1car sex urjent other claim defies reason: Most studies I've seen don't suggest day2day driving has comparable effects on dopamine, norepinephrine, vasopressin, oxcytocin levels, etc. Driving is really neat and urjdnt, but it usually doesn't make me cream my pants.

The point remains, however. Maybe the 1car sex urjent absorbers are too effective could be see F1 reference above but i attribute it more to a 1car sex urjent of road-head.

Keep dodging, Mad Max. If the course materials had been paid for by the school districts out of the account that holds state money, or the account that holds local money, they would have been the same materials, and the same teachers would have been teaching the same curriculum.

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It doesn't matter which pot of money paid for these classes - they failed. Abstinence-only sex ed is a failure, and all you can do is pretend that it would be a success if the school districts had tapped another revenue stream. You know, Mad Max, DARE classes work exactly the same way - the feds give money to the local school 1car sex urjent, who pay for materials and instructors.

If it was local tax dollars paying for the guy in the dog suit to tell students that cool kids don't smoke pot, it would totally work. 1car sex urjent isn't pushing abstinence-only education to win the votes of religious conservatives, he's doing it to win the voters of men 1car sex urjent daughters who don't want to admit that their little princess is a few years away from being 1car sex urjent else's 1car sex urjent whore. It's a big voting bloc. Children simply should be taught the truth, namely that sexuality is a gift 1car sex urjent for a husband and wife 1car sex urjent participate in the ongoing work of creation within an exclusive lifelong union, and that sexual relations outside such a union 1car sex urjent immoral, degrading to both parties and contrary to their human dignity.

So, everyone is shocked to find out that no amount of education is effective in overcoming a hard-wired natural instinct that's been around for about a billion years? This is surely the most messed-up piece of garbage published anywhere on the web this year: Doesn't the irony make your head spin so fast it falls off? The report on the failed policy of abstinence only sex Free sex chat El monte should give you some insight as to what might happen if a principal were to call in a student and say something like "Johnny, I've heard you've been fucking Suzie like there 1car sex urjent no tomorrow.

I think you should reconsider this, as your peers might get the wrong 1car sex urjent. You can make this choice, but you will have lost the respect of many people Its not my problem that your wife doesn't put out anymore. If my choices offend you, than be offended. You have lost my respect, and that of most of the hormonally and emotionally wound up kids at school. Having contempt for youth is not an attribute we seek in school leaders.

Since you no longer have any credibility with mature students, who refuse to be lectured to by morons who want to believe that 16 year olds are incapable of anything, we wish you very little luck in managing the immature students who occasionally create mayhem around here. Children simply should be taught the truth, namely that.

I would've thought the truth might involve things like actual statistics regarding disease and pregnancy, plus information about things like 1car sex urjent trauma and effects positive or negative on subsequent ability to form emotionally significant attachments. I gather, though, that the religious truth according to j. Somebody needs to reconsider what constitutes "human dignity. True abstinence education would involve disciplining students who violate canons of chastity. Discipline alone will not cut it.

What they need is bondage and discipline. Copies available in the school store. April 15, How did humans manage before we had marriage? The practicalities of sex Adult seeking real sex Stoddard Wisconsin 54658 abortion, a generous welfare safety net and effective birth control discouraged many of us.

Sweet women seeking sex looking for fuck resulted in unplanned marriage. This was a major inhibitor.

I suspect sex among engaged folks may have been at current levels, but even us boys from the "wrong side of the tracks" understood the awesome responsibilities and risks. You can't possibly believe that I support the sex-education boondoggle in 1car sex urjent of its forms, including the "abstinence education" program, which I've attacked Adult seeking casual sex Twelve mile Indiana 46988 this very thread.

I didn't say it needed another revenue stream. Your defense of the government schools and the "sex educaton" industry is like some unusually dim Soviet Commisar's litany of excuses for the failure of the latest five-year plan.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the collective 1car sex urjent, you see, but in this particular period the harvest was harmed by bad weather, not to mention right-wing saboteurs and wreckers. Likewise, when the government schools fail to produce the promised results - smarter, more sensitive, sexually enlightened kids - then you assume that it must be right-wing, theocratic sabotage that's to blame.

I'm stipulating, for the sake of argument, that joe isn't stupid. I don't know if he actually is, or whether he's a smart person posing as a dumb guy. Of course, parents who think that's too repressive will be able to select more 1car sex urjent schools, or educate their kids at home. The commment from the WaPo article about women 1car sex urjent in the 's doing it is a red herring. Basic math skills show that those born in the s were the ones who came of age in the 60's free love era.

Not exactly the previous generation one should make comparisons against. We are already tax-exempt with our multi million dollar income, yes, per church. That leaves us plentious to wash our Free pussy in New Mexico and pay each other a phat fat salary.

RON, you hit the nail right on the head. A lack of self control almost always produces unintended consequences. And just so ya'll know, I think the young ladies should suffer a public spanking.

So here's what I don't get. Assume that "society" as a whole really, truly frowns upon premarital sex. One can hopefully agree that no matter how much it disapproves of premarital sex, it approves of, say, first-degree murder even less.

The genetic imperative to kill somebody in cold blood is also much weaker on average than the imperative to have consensual intercourse in one's teens and early twenties. So if telling people "don't kill other people" doesn't work, and no remotely intelligent human being would ever argue that we should abandon the criminal-justice system and try it, then why does anybody think just saying "don't have sex" will have an effect?

Obviously, because it addresses the question of the number of partners, which - 1car sex urjent if you aren't a religious type - is a question of serious social consequence. Why would the number of partners someone has had be a question of serious social consequence? Something this study doesn't really mention, other than as 1car sex urjent aside in the methodology section, is that these numbers don't really include the number of people who don't have sex before marriage.

Basically, respondents who 1car sex urjent had never had sex or were married before they had sex are "censored" from the results. His term, not mine. So basically, what this study says is: Well, even that doesn't actually capture what this study says.

I've never done any research into this particular methodology, but the results seem to suggest that people who don't have premarital sex 1car sex urjent getting married aren't counted. The study only counts vaginal sex. I'm getting more 1car sex urjent that this study really says: Does this surprise anybody? As Attempting to seek regular Newquay late to the thread as I am, I 1car sex urjent believe 1car sex urjent one person thought to point out that Mad Max actually claimed with a straight face that argumentum ad antiquitatem deserved presumption of validity.

And that would be immoral. Can we stop wasting money on BS and add a math class?

I suggest probability and statistics. I can't believe you would use one logical fallacy to counteract another.

And 1car sex urjent wasn't really trying to use aex incredulity to "prove" you were wrong. I was just honestly surprised no one else had thought to point it out.

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